Yeah, you heard me, I totally and completely disagree with the essence of everything Landfish says! Now that I've said that, please allow me to justify myself. There is a current trend in the game development industry (and as a matter of fact every industry, but we won't get into that...) to do things JUST for the sake of doing them. Specifically, an abstract desire to make a work somehow "artistic". I find this desire to be counterproductive. When something is done--in any field of work--just for the sake of doing it, the end product seems to lose something. I could give a virtual cornucopia of examples, but I think perhaps I'll go for a rather obscure one, please stay with me... The Simpsons--at one time I would have chosen it as being not only the funniest, but also the most intelligent and literate of all shows on TV. There were a few seasons where nary an episode went by without various references to literature, poetry, movies, and God knows what else. Ah, but all good things come to an end. Recently they seem to have gotten new writers, new producers, and new I don't know what else, but the point is, they've lost something. Now every episode plays as being a PAINFULLY obvious attempt and BEING the Simpsons, but in doing so, absolutely and totally fails to be so. In my view, this can be traced to them making a point of certain things, just for the sake of those things. What you ask? Well, for instance, references to popular culture are put in just for the sake of referencing popular culture, and do not add ANYTHING to the overall work. Well, that's a lot of Simpsons talk (one of my favorite topics I'll have you know, but what, you might ask, is the point. Well, I see a very comparable tendency in the game development industry to try to add components to games, just for the sake of those components. Some examples? Trespasser attempted to implement an advanced system of physics just for the sake of having physics. What did it add to the game? Nothing. What did it take away from the game? Well, not only was it slow as molasses on the fastest systems of the time, but the physics system was almost impossible to manipulate. So now I make my plea. Please, don't just assume that because something seems to be abstractly "artistic" or "revolutionary", it will be fun. It could be that we're all stuck in a rut and just don't know how to revolutionize, or it could be that these formulas are simply tried and true to be fun. So why do I direct this post at Landfish? Because damnit, he's just too popular and going against the grain turns me on Edited by - Shinkage on 7/2/00 9:44:40 PM

whoohoo someone with a whit of sense!

Hey, slow down.

I think he does have a point. Sometimes you do sound a bit like the artist, doing "good design" for it´s own sake.

Maybe it´s not you but sometimes i feel that the whole RPG thing has gotten a bit out of hand, with good-doers on every corner trying to make everything RIGHT. And right not for the players to have fun and be entertained but "right" as the ultimate goal (cf. "What do we expect of RPG players" or something like that).

And your reply does strike me as a bit odd, as you yourself have done some pretty off-stuff (cf. no more RPGs). And have said pretty much everything on the topic of rpg.
Even IF he is wrong it´s not called for to lash out like that. Just because you have a lot of supporters around here doesn´t give you the right to flame away like that. And please excuse us mere mortals for not reading every single one of your posts.


MODERATOR: please leave this thread open for a while longer. Although it may seem that this is a personal thing between Shinkage and Landfish the original poster has stated a valid point of view on a design subject, and that DOES belong here.

And in my opinion it is not fair for anyone to call upon the moderators to close threads that contain unwelcome (or even unwarranted and unfair) criticism.

And it also raises the question of how much information a member is expected to have. In order to criticise a mentioned idea must one have read every thread on the topic? Or just the topics of the past month? past week? Is it necessary to have made an improvement yourself before you are allowed to criticise? ...´



Looking forward to see more here..