howdy everyone, i''m new to the group but i sought it out because i had to get this off my chest. i came up with the ideal MECHANICS for a computer role playing game engine. i know that it''s ideal because it''s the game that I desperately want to purchase and play! right now, all the craze is with the REAL TIME mechanics that DIABLO popularized. clearly, this is a mechanic that appeals to people and in large part, probably revived interest in RPGs as a computer game genre. and rightfully so, this is a really good and fun idea for RPGs that allow control of only one player character as in DIABLO I and II. this becomes UNMANAGEABLE and decidedly UN-FUN when you have a group of characters. this really hit me while playing VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE: REDEMPTION. trying to manage a "coterie" while in real time really sucks, and replaces the desired tactical strategizing with frantic, thoughtless clicking. even the designers of the game have realized this and have implemented a PAUSE feature for issuing orders - like so many modern role playing games seem to be doing. but i believe that this is a stop gap measure. i believe that the IDEAL would be to have combat (or other time critical gameplay) revert the game to TURN BASED PLAY! so you would move about in the game world just as you would in vampire or diablo but when you enter into a combat situation, all play goes to turn based. NOTE: this is similar in concept to CONSOLE RPGs like FINAL FANTASY VII. BUT, a big difference is that you are NOT taken out of the master game map and placed onto some COMBAT ARENA. also, whereas the only real choice that you can make in combat in console rpgs is to attack, defend or cast a spell. in the IDEAL rpg, you would still be able to move about in the world and use obstacles and such but it would be turn based now. also, you can move in any arbitrary direction but with every click of your mouse, the CIRCLE around your character representing MOVEMENT POINTS would grow smaller until they become exhausted and the movement phase for that character is over. then, your AGILITY and other stats would come into play and determine how many combat actions you can take, etc. and this would happen for each of your characters and the enemies, the order of who goes next being determined by something like an AGILITY or calculated INITIATIVE stat. AND we can employ really cool effects like if a MISSILE cannot reach a target in "ONE ROUND", then it is frozen in space like in the matrix! this effect would be a lot more dramatic and cool if the game employs a 3d engine where you can rotate around and see what''s what and who''s where! this kind of mechanic will allow for really deep game play and strategizing and you can have things like characters erecting shields for other characters and players diving for cover, etc. ALSO for those who are not sold on the notion of turn based combat, you can even make the turn based combat optional for the player and they can choose to engage in combat in RT or send it into TURN BASED at their own discretion. ----------------------------------------------------------------- a great thing about this kind of mechanic is that it emulates the kind of play that you get in TABLETOP RPGs. when not engaged in combat, there is very little time or distance demarcation in modern RPGs. (yes, the original AD&D rules usually called for tedious time/distance calculations even when not engaged in combat but this is admittedly a DRAG and most modern pnp games do not employ this kind of mechanic. this FLUID kind of play in our CRPG model is reflected in the RT play that characters move about in when not engaged in active combat. but in these PNP games, whenever combat occurs, we break everything down into rounds where tactics and stats make the most difference and can be employed in a fun way. this will be reflected in our ideal crpg. ALSO breaking things into rounds can also happen OUTSIDE of combat situations! they can be SCRIPTED into any game for special situations like traps (the room is filling with water and you have to figure a way out or bust out!). these kinds of cinematic, non combat events very rarely are possible in CRPGs nowadays and it is one of the biggest differences between pnp and computer rpgs. i believe our HYBRID RT/TURN BASED mechanic will allow for much more of this kind of dynamic RPG experience not purely based in combat. OTHER SITUATIONS may include defusing a bomb and protecting the defuser from a bunch of thugs, destroying a bridge before an insurmountable army can get to it, etc. AND in RT mode when characters are moving about on the map, you can choose different RATES OF MOVEMENT and the rate that you choose will affect things like fatigue and possibly more importantly, PERCEPTION and STEALTH. so if you''re moving REALLY FAST, then the computer may calculate that you are unaware of a clue that it would have drawn to screen had you been moving at a CAUTIOUS rate. in addition, if you''re moving cautiously and slowly, you may see a monster before he sees you. this would allow you to get the drop an encounter where your party surprises the other and thus, everyone on your side can take a turn before the enemy can even take one OR you can avoid the encounter altogether. if you were moving at all out speed, maybe you would have encountered these monsters without even having seen them on the computer screen. this would be an accurate modeling of SURPRISE dontcha think? ----------------------------------------------------------------- more commercial RPGs (and even REAL TIME STRATEGY games) are beginning to employ some form of hybridized design. i hear that POOL OF RADIANCE II will employ some version of turn based combat so there is reason to be optimistic. BUT, i fear that the commercial implementations are not fully formed in the designers minds yet and i am eager to play what i can conceive in my own mind! also, in going to turn based play, i fear many will revert to 1980s RPGs that were very boring graphically. i wish to re-incorporate the turn based play that enables tactical group combat while at the same time, keeping the SPECTACULAR SPELL EFFECTS and COOL ATTACK ANIMATIONS that we''ve grown to love in games like diablo ii and vampire! we can have the best of both worlds! wow, i''m even picturing a KUNG FU role playing game! based on those martial arts movies where everyone''s flying around and casting spells and fighting with different disciplines and such! it would be really neat to have turn based play and watch the results of attacks unfold with awesome martial arts animations! ----------------------------------------------------------------- sorry, this is a long post. and i''m not a game designer (actually, i''m a 3d artist). but i love rpgs, from the paper and pencil roots to diablo and i write what i write just because i want the game designers to hear and make this because I WANT TO PLAY IT! if any of you guys find that this design has merit, pass it along to someone who can make it happen! if you''re a designer, please, for heaven''s sake, make it happen! i''m even available for consultation ! but i really believe that this should be where crpgs should be steering toward! anyone who has any enthusiasm with this direction, let''s make this happen! anyone who thinks this is a bad idea, please ignore. thank you for your time and attention. a game lover, jin.choung@gte.net P.S. multi player rpgs should adopt the user game mastering pioneered by vampire and again iterated with the upcoming NEVERWINTER NIGHTS but i think that RANDOM DUNGEON GENERATORS would be great for multiplayer. pnp rpgs are not WIN based. but crpgs kind of are. this is why playing against the randomly generated dungeons in diablo multiplayer was so fun. ARCANUM will feature a random generator. i think the ideal is to have both with the user DM determines how much he wants to intervene. whew!

Weird. I just had a similar idea a few days ago Guess that means we''re on the same wavelength. I didn''t absorb the whole post, so while I''ll state my version, I don''t know if I''m just repeating you or not:

Time passes between turns in battle. Faster party members will go sooner and more often than slower ones. It is even possible for certain troops to move many times in a row. Outside of battle, time flows as it normally does.

Basically I whipped up these rules because I found it too much of a hassle to handle real-time movement for more than a couple characters. Yes, I''m being lazy, but it fits the mood/concept of my game design.

I find the concept of having a missile or spell taking multiple turns to reach its target very interesting. It definately has the potential for adding a lot of suspense to the game. The player might be pleading "move, move, MOVE!" instead of just getting annoyed at a cannonball wiping out his/her troops because he couldn''t click fast enough. Would you mind if I implemented this in my design?

-----Sonic Silicon-----

howdy sonic silicon,

yeah, i think we''re very much on the same wavelength. and by all means, please do use the missile idea! as i''ve said, i''m not a game designer (YET!) so i''ve no resources to execute any of this stuff. so it''s up to you guys to hurry up and make the RPG that i want to play!

are you pursuing development as an independent endeavor or with a funded company?

in any case, good luck and best wishes.

jin