DEATH.... Embrace it!
122
November 11, 2000 05:12 PM
Um.. just for clairification; what sort of "death" is everyone talking about? The type of death where enemies you''ve killed respawn when you return (fps/action games come to mind), story death (where one character dies, then returns an innumerable amount of times), or story vs. battle death (in conRpgs, where a character can die in battle but be resurrected with a 100gp potion, but if they''re stabbed with a knife during a story sequence they die permanently)? Seems like everyone is talking about a little of each.. perhaps this thread could use a little more focus, or something.
122
November 11, 2000 06:25 PM
The problem with permanate death of PCs - especially in RPGs - is that it tends to drastically reduce the life-expectancy of the game.
Say a player works long and hard at building a character up, in most games (Particularly MMO, but single player as well - At least when I''m at the controls
) you aren''t going to get very far without dying unless you are exceedingly cautious as to the battles you fight (In other words, slow).
If the time taken to make any apparent progress doesn''t put players off - which, I admit, it shouldn''t provided you have sufficient other avenues open for them to explore in the mean time.
Anyhow, to get back on track, once they have their strong, probably famous/infamous character, should s/he be killed off once, and that once be permanate, the player is liable to elicit an emotional response which boils down to an extreme likelyhood of the box being hurled across the room, and a ''break'' of indeterminate length taken from playing that game.
Say a player works long and hard at building a character up, in most games (Particularly MMO, but single player as well - At least when I''m at the controls
) you aren''t going to get very far without dying unless you are exceedingly cautious as to the battles you fight (In other words, slow).If the time taken to make any apparent progress doesn''t put players off - which, I admit, it shouldn''t provided you have sufficient other avenues open for them to explore in the mean time.
Anyhow, to get back on track
, once they have their strong, probably famous/infamous character, should s/he be killed off once, and that once be permanate, the player is liable to elicit an emotional response which boils down to an extreme likelyhood of the box being hurled across the room, and a ''break'' of indeterminate length taken from playing that game.
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307
November 11, 2000 07:01 PM
quote: Original post by DM
The problem with permanate death of PCs - especially in RPGs - is that it tends to drastically reduce the life-expectancy of the game.
Say a player works long and hard at building a character up, in most games (Particularly MMO, but single player as well - At least when I''m at the controls
If the time taken to make any apparent progress doesn''t put players off - which, I admit, it shouldn''t provided you have sufficient other avenues open for them to explore in the mean time.
Anyhow, to get back on track
Yeah, DM, agree that in most current games that is how it would be, but what if the game was designed to have other things happen that weren''t so lethal? The game could have no random meaningless battles. When there''s a lethal situation it would be because the player kind of brought it on himself/herself. In that situation I think perm death can work.
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi
122
November 12, 2000 01:22 AM
Let''s hear Necromancers response to all of these reasonable arguments. i want to hear his side of the story. Come on Necromancer, defend your position!
"When i was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse, out ofthe corner of my mind. I turned to look, but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child hasgrown, the dream has gone." -Pink Floyd
November 12, 2000 01:34 AM
I would have to agree with Necro. Ecspecially with Metal gear Solid and dwarf your post was pretty dumb what is the point of a challenge if you can continue the game while your dead? Even though it is kind of a good idea how they used that idea in Ultia Online where you could get reserected and go back to your corpse to claim your items. But death deals with the type of game if your making a realistic game try to have death of a person only once and if its far fetched than kill a person over and over.
1,237
November 12, 2000 02:36 AM
Um... I still think you miss the point. What if you become a spirit. Have you never read Katherine Kerrs Devery series? That has strong reasoning for Reincarnation, and basically everybody keeps on living out lives between two different planes of existence. From each plane, they die and return to the other. Is this such a crazy idea? You could have a game consisting of two different alternating planes. By dying in one plane you appear in the other at the beginning of a New life.
Why is this such a stupid and ignorant idea?
About the living on in the same plane though, it is more of a spiritual side which can''t directly affect its surroundings and basically you play to come back to life.
As for permanent death, why make the enemies die? Explain their living better by just wounding them and taking them prisoner. Now that is something that most games DO NOT cover!
Please explain the ignorance in this AP!
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
Why is this such a stupid and ignorant idea?
About the living on in the same plane though, it is more of a spiritual side which can''t directly affect its surroundings and basically you play to come back to life.
As for permanent death, why make the enemies die? Explain their living better by just wounding them and taking them prisoner. Now that is something that most games DO NOT cover!
Please explain the ignorance in this AP!
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
307
November 12, 2000 03:36 AM
Yeah, dwarf likes that life after death concept I have noticed
dwarf, at least in Thief you could knock out the guards rather than kill them and it was usually beneficial as they made less noise. At least Thief was in the right direction more than most games...Thief proves so many points where we say "not many games do this"
okay enough w/ my Thief-worshipping
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
dwarf, at least in Thief you could knock out the guards rather than kill them and it was usually beneficial as they made less noise. At least Thief was in the right direction more than most games...Thief proves so many points where we say "not many games do this"
okay enough w/ my Thief-worshipping
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi
1,237
November 12, 2000 03:38 AM
Actually, I said what I said about wounding and prisonering because of *my* theif-worshiping... funny that 
307
November 12, 2000 03:45 AM
yeah, long live Thief! We need a Thief forum (j/k) ;P
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi
This topic is closed to new replies.
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