This system assumes you are randomly generating a set of NPCs with each game. The presence of villainy: Every Nth NPC has an invisible flag set, called villainy. This is not to say that the NPC is a villain, but that they have the capacity to become one. An NPC becomes a villain by acquiring Villain points. Villain points: The total number of villain points in a region/map/area is constant. Each NPC with the villainy flag contributes one point to the total available. (This may need to be scaled upwards) When a villain is defeated, any villain points they have accumulated become unclaimed. Acquiring villain points: At the beginning, the villain points are distributed among the NPCs that have the villainy flag set. This should be fairly even, but not perfectly so. Between player adventures, any villainy points that are unclaimed get randomly distributed to the remaining pool of potential villains, no more than one additional point each. This means that as the game progresses, and the number of villains shrinks and the player naturally faces more villainous opponents. Eventually there will be more free points than villains left. These will hang around unused until the next distribution. You might also consider a mechanic that uses the excess points as a probability to flip the villainy bit on an otherwise normal NPC. Effects of villain points: 1) Personality. (Using the seven deadly sins idea) Each villain point moves the NPC personality away from nice happy mundane folk to something evil. In game terms, the NPC acquires one point in one of the seven deadly sins the moment they get the villainy flag. Each villain point they acquire adds one point to a deadly sin *and* subtracts one point from a virtue. Any particular formula can be mapped to a villain class or set of villain classes. Example: Fred has the villainy flag set. This immediately gives him 1 point in, say, greed. He''s a little greedy. But he''s not evil. Later he acquires one villain point. In Fred''s case, this adds one point of hate and subtracts one point of compassion. Fred is now a little evil (hate +1, greed+1, compassion-1). This formula means he chooses to become a mugger. 2) Style. This is work for your artists and sound folks. As the NPC becomes more evil, they will stand out from the average NPC. Truly evil villains should look the part. For those with only a little evil, minor changes are sufficient. Example: Fred''s icon now no longer looks quite like everyone else. As a mugger, he gets a little bigger, and his clothing might change color slightly. He begins to look a little brutish. 3) Power. In addition to all the normal powers and abilities that your herioc types have, villains may also pick from a list of Villain shticks. Each point of villainy can buy one shtick. Villain shticks: I) Followers: Mundanes: These are ordinary folks. By definition they are non-combatants. These are the accountants and workers in a madman''s fortress. They are free, and the villain gets as many as he needs to support a scene or setting. They are also useless for stopping heroes, so they may be considered furniture for purposes of the game. If you need game stats, give mundanes stats no more than half of an average hero, and one useless skill (Accounting, for example). Mooks: Mundanes in a fancy uniform. They also know how to operate one weapon, though not very well. These are your basic cannon fodder. They are useful to impress mundanes but barely serve to slow a hero down. Mooks should have stats equal to 1/2 to 3/4 of a typical hero, depending on how you game scales up. They should also have one combat skill at a low level. A villain gets 1 mook plus a number of mooks equal to (the number of heroes+1) for each level of shitck they buy; this number is avilable to the villain in each setting/trigger/scene/area during the adventure. Example: Villain buys two levels of Followers-Mooks. The player is playing a single hero rather than a party. This means the villain gets 5 mooks available for any encounter with the hero. Mooks that the hero destroys are simply replaced for the next encounter. Mooks, non-human option: Sometimes the mooks need to have some built in power or unnatural ability, while stil remaining cannon fodder. Taking the non-human option gives your mooks one power or ability at half effectiveness and/or the lowest level, as appropriate, but requires that you strongly reduce one stat to balance it. Details depend on the game system. The number of mooks available is per the standard mooks Example: The villain is a Necromancer. While he might have some human followers, it is more likely that his mooks will be undead. So the player takes the non-human option, and makes the mooks Zombies. they get the Undead ability, with none of the advanced options like life drain. To balance this, he reduces their speed to Very Slow. Strong Mooks (minions): Strong mooks are halfway competent. They still act as cannon fodder, but there''s a chance they can slow down or stop a hero. These would be trained elite troops, for example. Strong mooks have stats equal to roughly 3/4 of a typical hero, depending on how the game scales up. They should also have one combat skill at basic competency, and one other adventrue related skill (stealth, tracking, etc). Finally, the strong mooks get one power or ability normally reserved to heroes, at half power or the lowest level, as appropriate. A villain gets a number of strong mooks equal to (1+the number of heroes) for each level of shitck purchased; this is the total number available for the entire adventure, and no more than half of them may be in any single setting/room/area. Example: A corporate villain hires some trained mercenaries. They are Strong Mooks with a basic Gun skill. He buys these each of these fellows a better gun with a laser sight (range improvment) as the singular hero upgrade. When invaded by a hero party of six, the viillain has 7 mercenaries that he can use, no more than 3 in any one spot, to discourage them. One disposed of, these are not replaced. Strong Mooks (non-human option): The mooks may acquire an additional power or ability for each weakness or deficiency they have. This should not be used to create hordes of powerful monsters, instead it should take care of special designs that he game requires. Example: Our Necromancer also wants some more powerful minions to boss around. He buys one level of Strong Mooks and designs Ghouls. They are naturally faster and stronger than the zombies, and they get the basic Undead ability for free. He takes the non-human option to give them a paralyzing touch, balancing this with the inability to withstand daylight. Monstrous Mooks (henchmen): These are essentially basic heroes. They probably have a name, and represent a serious obstacle for the player. Each villain shtick spent purchases one henchmen, and a villain is never allowed to use more than (number of heroes+1) in any single room/area/setting. they are not replacable, but they may be used over and again until they are permanently disposed of (killed). II) Location Base: For each shtick spent, a villain acquires a small base of operations. Each additional shtick spent may increase the size of the base or purchase a second one (starting at small size). Small (size 0) - This should be no more than a few rooms. Typical example would be a house, a lab, a place of business. In game terms, this is less than the size of one level. Medium (size 1) - This is a large building or small outdoors area. Typical example would be a temple, a warehouse, a graveyard with tomb. In game terms, no more than 3 levels of an Isometric RPG, or maybe half of a largish 3D environment. Large (size 2) - This is big enough to set an entire section of hte adventure in. It could be a rambling mansion, a large temple complete with dungeons underneath, a small space station, or an island fortress. Very Large (size 3) - Typically used only by meglomanics, this is big enough for several adventures together. A large island, a large space station, a small country, an otherworldly plane. Note most bases of large or above (and some medium bases) have at least one unguarded entrance at any time. Defenses: these are actually another form of Mooks. Guards are obviously a type of mook, but fixed defenses such as laser turrets or barbed wire fences serve the same purpose. Purchase the defenses like you would mooks. Simply convert the combat skill(s) to an obstacle difficulty against specific non-combat skills like lock-picking or climbing. The higher grade the mook, the higher the difficulty and the more narrow the set of skills that may be used to bypass it. III) For the Villian himself/herself Personal power:The typical villain starts out as a mundane (worthless and weak). For each shtick (villain point) invested, the villain can climb up the scale in personal power. Use the scale for mooks if you don''t have something already built into your system (levels). If you use the scale for mooks, feel free to add a few more levels on the top, available only to villains (not mooks). Example: Fred the mugger spends his sole villain point on personal power. He upgrades from mundane to mook, and acquires a club to use in mugging. He''s pretty useless as a villain at this point, but he makes a fine starting point for player target practice. If he acquires another villain point, he might buy some mook followers and start a gang. I will return: For each shtick spent, the villain in question can return once after being permanently disposed of. In this case, a villain that has been disposed of loses half of his currently accumulated villain points (they become unclaimed) and uses up the shitck spent on I will return. For each additional shtick spent, the villain may return from an additional death or may retain an additional 25% of his villain points. Threat rating: A threat rating is a general undefined evilness that the villain can apply when and wherever needed. The game effect is to give a +1 to all rolls that the villain makes (or the equivalent). This is intended to be different from Personal Power. Personal Power is meant to develop the villain along specifc lines, with significant advances in narrow areas. A threat rating is a general bonus used to distinguish two otherwise identical villains. Example: Our Necromancer villain has bought a few levels of Personal Power to acquire the necromancy skills and a few other spells, enough to distinguish him from a generic Mook. If he buys another Personal power level, he might transform into a Lich, but if he buys a threat rating then he is simply a more powerful Necromancer. Hi-tek/magic/whatever Big threat: For one shtick, a villain can buy a single Big Threat. This is an item of enormous potential destruction. Giant lasers, weather machines, bio-warfare agents, typical James Bond villain stuff. It should be fit to the setting of the game. A high-tech weapon in the 1880s might be a giant clockwork spider running on steam power. Specific mechanics depend on teh system. The Big Threat can only be used 3 times. The first use is always at half strength. This is either a demonstration for blackmail, or foreshadowing a larger conflict ahead. The second use is at full power, but has a side effect of summoning heroes to the location of the machine or at least the base where the machine is. The villain can be parked on Pluto, a million miles from the nearest neighbor, but once he fires the giant laser at full power, heroes somehow appear and foil the plot. The third use of the Big Threat causes it to self-destruct, usually taking a large chunk of the surroundings with it. Note that a clever threat is one that can can be used against the heroes when they arrive rather than a one-shot deal. Alternate existence: The alternate existence represents the presence of the villain on a different plane or mode of existence. This could be the ethereal plane, or it could be cyberspace, a different timeline, or simply a distant country. The villain is can take action, exert influence, or employ mooks in this other place. The villain also further purchase bases or the equivalent in the alternate realm. If applicable, the villain can employ mooks that come from one realm in an alternate realm (summoning demons, for example). Example: The villain in question is a rogue AI. It has established a secure base in cyberspace. If the AI purchases the alternate existence shtick then it has figured out how to pass itself off as a real person and can take action in meatspace (say, hiring thugs). Well, it''s a start anyway. Other additions?

Sounds like a pretty cool system sir. While reading this hefty post, I found myself spending schtick points to upgrade my mooks. You may want to look into the players being villains. It could be fun. You would have to contend with other potential villains AND deal with heroes thwarting your plans.

Later,
Eck

P.S. Awesome terminology.

JSwing your posts show an obviously large amount of creativity, and also a systematic approach to game design issues, which would translate much easier into prorgam code.
All praise aside, the real reason I am posting this message is to find out if you are currently working on a game design, or are working for a team/project/company.
I feel that your design ideas and talents could fit perfectly with the team I am currently assembling for an action/RPG. If you have an interest in working with a team to create an outstanding game and you are not "under contract" with anyone else out there right now, you can contact me on ICQ 76430848, or e-mail me at Kevin_Smeltzer@hotmail.com
Thanks again for posting some really great ideas on this site, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Kevin

By the way my UserName is FobGangsta, but I''m not at home right now and I can''t remember my password (duh!)

But seriousely, what''s the use of such a long and complicated system? Is it really worth the effort? Will it ever get finished?
And if that system does ever get finished, will it be better then a [normal] linear plot?
The thought itself is very creative and you''d probably make a good game designer, but I''d say stick with the good old-fasioned linear plot. They''re much easier to do and better [at least story wise].
By the way has anybody of you ever tried rpg maker 2000?
That really is an awesome program.
http://rpgmaker.chat.ru/

You can start flaming now

Rick

Thx for the feedback.

I borrowed the words (mooks, shticks) from the Feng Shui RPG.

Heroes as villains is fine, but probably is handled better through more traditional development, IMO. To allow the players mooks and bases would mean a different kind of management that would slow down most action-adventure-RPG type games.

Kevin (FobGangsta), I''ll be in touch by email.

Whether this would be ''better'' than a linear storyline depends on what you want. The obvious advantage is replay value, the disadvantage is losing the finely crafted detail that a story can provide.

I didn''t post much beyond the bones of a system, the details would depend on the rest ofthe game you were developing. Obviously you would detail out all of the possible mooks ahead of time, and the conversion of personality formulas to actual villain types.

Would it ever end? If you want a definite finishing point, eliminate the option to flip the villainy bit on NPCs. Once the original number is up, the game ends. Of course, you could also make a continuously evolving world where the game ends only when the player retires (or dies).

The mooks bought with the followers shtick are not meant to have sufficient depth to become independent NPCs in their own right. They''re an expendable resource, mostly there to be splattered by the player and keep him busy.

Oh, and thanks for the suggestion -one thing shtick I missed -

Plot Twist: Each plot twist shtick puts a barrier between the villain and the hero. The barrier may only be overcome by a player who completes some side quest not directly related to the villains plans. This does not need to be a physical barrier, any form of plaot barrier will do.

Example: Our Necromancer buys a Plot Twist. Now any hero wanting to defeat him will have to first go questing for the Mystic Jewel of Light before they will be able to confront the villain.

This system shows great potential in two very distinct areas ...
1) persistent online worlds ... it could drive an underlying culture for a decent amount of time ... all by itself ... over time the developers would want to add new shticks / minion types / and perhaps adjust the vilain point pools manually for certain areas (to drive a timetable ... maybe the orcs start out nice ... but have an ever increasing villain point pool)
2) random scenerio generation ... after MUCH development effort this system might be able to yield an engine for randomly generating one-off scenerios. Much like many games have random map generators ... you have described about one half of a random culture / personality generator (your missing the good side) ... and that might in turn be one third to one half of a random scernerio creator ... just add maps, goals, etc ...

best of luck to you

Thanks for the compliments.

I''m not actually using it for anything, it was a response to a request (from Wavinator I think) for a set of rules to govern villains in their idealized RPG (the one with perfect freedom of action and random, persistant worlds). The request was an interesting design challenge, so I sketched out the starting point of a possible solution.

As you pointed out, there''s not much there. Too much depends on the rest of the game system involved, and it''s probably unbalanced even for what is there.

It''s just intended to be an idea mine for folks around here.

JSwing

Do you play Feng Shui by any chance JSwing? I just noticed that some of the terminology (mooks, schticks, etc) sounds like stuff from that game.

Heh, I guess you do, should've read the whole thread before asking. Feng Shui is really a sweet game though. What do you think about adapting the combat system (with stunts and everything) to make CRPG combat more interesting then the standard hit trading you see in most CRPGs?

Edited by - impossible on May 27, 2001 4:17:36 AM

It sounds as though it would make 1/2 a great board game, ie. increasing your villainy / heroism is the goal of the game.

Increases give you more units and benefits, and can be used in robberies etc?

But you''d have to make the rest of the game.

Impossible: I don''t think it would work very well. Not just specific to feng shui, but to most pencil and paper rpgs. There are two difficulties.

The first is that stunts are a loose system. The player gives an interesting description and the GM decides what bonuses apply. There is no finite set of moves to accomplish. Computer games require that the possible moves, and the associated graphics, all be worked out ahead of time. Not only does this have size limitations, but the game changes from group story-telling to a list of possible strategies.

In and of itself, this is not bad, merely a change in the flavor. But it leads to the second problem, which is pacing.

Paper RPGs go at whatever pace is necessary for the game. The decisions and dice rolls are mixed in with plenty of conversation and human interaction. But computer games provide the feedback (visual, aural, etc) at a real time pace. If you bog down a user through many different decisions (mouse clicks) in order to perform an action that is fairly simple in the real world, it becomes a drag. Even in turn-based games.

As a general rule, I think actions that are fast-paced (like combat) should be quick for the user at the computer.

Of course, these are just opinions, feel free to disagree.


Ketchaval: Great idea, although it might be heavy on the numbers and charts.