A long post ------------ Some RPG stuff here . My opinions etc.. 1. The inherent difference between a roleplaying game and a computer game is in probability. In roleplaying games things are never 100% certain, in computer games Pacman will always eat the dots, Bullets will always hit flesh if aimed properly. But what is the source of this uncertainty. It isn''t die rolls, as that is a lazy way to design something. There ought to be a reason for someone failing to do something. Ie. They drop the lockpick because of the cat that jumps out at them from the shadows (but only if cats in the shadows are appropriate at this location and state of affairs SEE POINT 2-3). 2. Perceivable consequence. (idea: stolen from Witchboy''s Cauldron, originating from Marc LeBlanc?). The player should have a good idea of the consequences of their actions, this comes from a mixture of things, firstly the information that they have on their situation (are there any cats to leap out , enemies ready to attack if they are noisy, etc). They need to know what could affect the outcomes of their actions. Ie. If they lockpick the door, then they would not expect the door to turn into an apple. Instead expecting it to either open, stay locked, be partially unlocked, break lockpick etc. This needs a consistent set of rules that the player can gain an appreciation of by experimentation, induction. 3. Appropriate Information. This is important, the player needs to be able to know what is going on in the situation. What factors are present that can affect the situations. (Of course in this kind of game, the relevent info may be filtered, ie. if the player is blind, partially deaf, not as intelligent etc. 4. Variety of experience, the same old stuff gets boring, the game should monitor and change the things that are encountered in the game. Either introducing new elements, slightly changing existing elements or encouraging the player to deal with them in a different way (ie. get the criminal -alive = a bigger bonus). 5. Pacing, the game should pace the introduction & (removal) of game ("play") elements. This can be done in many different ways. 6. There should be a plausible reason for everything that happens in the game, every object that you find. why are those bandits robbing the Merchant goods caravan? - for money, (why do they want the money?), why is that bear eating that salmon? because it is hungry. Why is there a house here? Because it is near a stream and some vegetable growing fields, which the owner needed to get food & water.

1. The random factor is an abstraction used ot cover the lack of detail. That is, wiggling a few pieces of metal in a lock composed of a half dozen mechanical parts is not worth modeling.
So the game uses an abstract mechanism to cover this.

Picking any single lock can be viewed an an uncertain activity - it is theoretically possible to break your picks, or fail to open the lock, or get lucky and pop it right open. So a random number is used to represent the action, usually weighted by whatever factors enhance or penalize the chance of success.

Why does it fail? Because you wiggled the pick the wrong way. Or because the sliver of metal doesn''t quite bend around one of the tumblers. Or because the lock is rusty and difficult to manipulate.


For me the question is:
Does using a random number fit with the rest of the game? Is it useful to simulate real world lock-picking (even abstractly), or should there be a different mechanism? Choices decided based on game balance, not realism.

JSwing

I think part of the problem w/ randomness in CRPGs is that the random failure does not usually mean much. It just means you have to try again. It''s just repeditive action.

Alternatively, in Thief, when you fail to open a door, it means that a guard is more likely to find you ''cause it is taking you longer. It''s not the randomness, it''s what the randomness means.


A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

There is a more subtle issue here regarding randomized events. It''s not so much a matter of whether you choose a probability function to model an event or not. It''s more an issue of at what level the random probability is applied.

Look at a path finding algorithm used by an enemy agent. Should you randomize the agent''s path by some noise? I argue that you should not, because you are merely messing up the most natural and optimized path. So, at this level, I say randomness has no place. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with applying a random probability to the state of mind of the enemy agent, which then changes the needs of the path finding algorithm.

For example, an enemy agent with a randomly created state of mind which says: "Take no risks; I have a lot to live for tomorrow" would then make a different request to the path finding algorithm, requesting paths which have a great deal of protection. Conversely, an enemy agent which is initialized with a random state of mind which says: "I am verging on suicide and don''t care about the risks" would request from the path finding algorithm the most direct and fastest route.

So randomness depends on the level at which it is applied.

yeah, good point Bishop. That makes a lot of sense.


A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.