I want some opinion on this Idea i had. Sometimes you get tired of having to kill monster-get item-sell item-buy weapon-kill monster-get item- sell item-buy weapon-kill monster................ So why not implement a different feature where your weapon evolves with your experience and also like the other weapons needs to be treated so it is at 100% efficiency. Making the game more personalized by letting the player choose the type of weapon he likes and letting surprising him with the new design the evolved weapon gets. Tell me what you guys think and what else i can add or subtract from the idea. Dark Era: Concealed Evil. The next generation of online gaming.

That''s for sure a nice idea! The only problem I see is that it''ll be kinda hard to evolve a weapon a few times, without changin'' them into a completly new weapon... Like in Team Fortress Classic the turret... you had a base turret and you were able to upgrade it (as an Engineer).. but there were only 2 upgrades..... base was single MG, 1st upgrade double MG, 2nd added a rocket launcher....

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In final fantasy 8, they had this idea.
It wasn''t called evolving of course. You simply took your old weapon and new exotic parts, and combined them to create a similar yet better weapon. Simple upgrades.

I hadn''t played FF8, but i think that is a good implementation to the idea. Might also come up with better features for it. thanks atavist.

Dark Era: Concealed Evil.
The next generation of online gaming.

You know, there''re lots of types of evolution. Are we thinking about linear, branching, accretionary with multiplying effect (eg combine a growing number of base pieces in a combination of the player''s choice)? FF8 used the first type, EVO used the second type, and Super Metroid used the third type.

Evil Islands (Rage of Mages 3) has some kind of weapon/magic upgrade system but it''s balance it totally messed up: it costs much to upgrade a little, yet you get veeery little cash, so even a high class player can''t afford medicorate upgrade, not to talk about big upgrade. Anyawys.

I don''t think that "upgrading" is such a good idea. Have you ever heard of a way to upgrade a sword? By changing the blade? Well, you''ve got a brand new sword then, not upgraded one. What I think is better is let the player "get accustomed" with a weapon, like the more he uses it, the more he''s mastering it. You can even have a variable of some kind that shows to what degree have you mastered what weapon. Like this:

1. Blades (+1)
1.1 Swords (+2)
1.1.1 Two-handed swords (+5)
1.1.1.1 Barbarian THS (+10)
1.1.1.2 Giant THS (+8)
1.1.2 Long swords (+0)
1.1.2.1 Knight LS (+0)

So if you played long time with 1.1.1.1, you get some kind of bonus (+10 in that case). If you use a very similar weapon, you get (1.1.1.2) you get -20% bonus, or +8. For the whole category 1.1.1 you get +50% the bonus (+5), for the subclass +20% (+2) and for the class +10% (+1). And we could have cumulative bonuses, so if you played with the 1.1.1.1 you''ll have a

1+1.1+1.1.1+1.1.1.1=18 bonus points,

but if you loose it for some reason and have to use 1.1.1.2 you''ll end up with 16 bonus points. Also, if you switched to Long Swords (1.1.2),you get 3 points, and when you gain experience with that weapon (after several fights, pay for training, etc), you may advance to

1. Blades (+2)
1.1 Swords (+2)
1.1.1 Two-handed swords (+5)
1.1.1.1 Barbarian THS (+10)
1.1.1.2 Giant THS (+8)
1.1.2 Long swords (+3)
1.1.2.1 Knight LS (+6)

and receive 12 bonus points. Note that the Blades points also gone up (1=(50% of 1.1)+(50% of 1.2)+=(50% of 1.x)...; don''t use negative 1.Xes, like 1.2, just positive).

This needs balancing of course, but i''m making it up as I write.

Also the negative bonuses can come into play. Suppose you use a new subclass of Blade - a Stab Knife. It has almost nothing to do with the twohanded killing machine you used so far, so it is normal for you to suffer some penalties:

1.2 Daggers (-1)
1.2.1 Knife (-2)
1.1.1.1 Throwing knife (-4)
1.1.1.2 Stab knife (-4)

Penalties: (1.1.1.1+1.2.1+1.2)-1=5. Our overall Blades lore negates 2 points of the penalties. You can also use the penalties system for a new weapon class, like Polearm, or Bludgeon and don''t have penalties in a single class.

So much for weapon evolving... for now.


Boby Dimitrov
boby@azholding.com

I agree with BobyDimitrov that weapons don''t get upgraded. Though adding a design to the hilt of a sword giving it special properties might be good.

Other than giving bonus points and all that (which will get boring later in the game) we may give the player new attacks or even spells froma magic weapon.

Using the branching method as brought up by sunandshadow, we could make up different attacks and spells which is determined through the actions of the player. If the player plays with stealth and doesn''t get into big fights, the weapon might increase the player''s stealth bonus. Like an aura. In the form of attacks, the player may not only gain bonuses but new types of attacks with different properties suited to various parts of the game.

Also, the best way may be to give the weapon levels and the player fights to increase it''s level and determine which course it will take through the branch of attacks and spells. But the level should be hidden from the player because weapons really don''t evolve. The player does and with the skills he have can use to weapon in variuos ways. The spells and attacks he gain training with the weapon are thus determine by him.

Also, FF7 used materias to enhance your weapon. Though it does not change the weapon because it has a fixed number of slots. It can be used in conjunction with the ideas expressed by all of us.

Hey by the way Kings Field 2 used evolving weapons first. Your sword gained exp. as you did and would grow bigger from a dagger to a sword in three levels. neat idea just not very well implemented. Besides half the fun of and RPG is questing for items anyways.

"There is humor in everything depending on which prespective you look from."

Some examples of those who''ve gone before. Perhaps they''ll be useful for ideas, perhaps not.

Hmmm... It''s been ages, but, if I remember correctly, Secret of Mana (SNES) did this. There were only 8(?) weapons that you could acquire throughout the game, but as you progressed, you would find some sort of magical goodies that would allow you to improve one of the weapons in some way.

As the weapons evolved, they would be capable of new attack forms, but first you would have to gain experience with the new form of the weapon to be able to use it effectively. Also, the newer attack forms took progressively longer to charge up.

There might have been some other changes to the weapon as well, for example, the spear might''ve gotten a slightly longer reach as it improved, but I do not remember 100%.

Another game that did something to this effect was Soul Blade (PSX). (Bah, all console games) A 3d-ish street fighterish game. The weapons themselves didn''t really evolve, but each character had a particular style of weapon, that they used exclusively (polearm, axe, katana, falchion, etc). One of the game modes allowed the player wander the world and find new, different forms of the weapon style, that would have a wide variety of different powers.

Some might be faster, but do less damage. Some might do more damage, but damage the user as well. Some might have longer reach, or be poisoned, or allow the user to regenerate, increase their defense, etc. Each new weapon required a different strategy because of it''s abilities, but the overall style of the character wouldn''t change.

quote: Secret of Mana (SNES) did this. There were only 8(?) weapons that you could acquire throughout the game, but as you progressed, you would find some sort of magical goodies that would allow you to improve one of the weapons in some way.

This is the same old Enchanting, or Spellbinding the Weapon. Just have a caster put a spell on it and there ya go. The weapon does not evolve, and as I said some posts above, weapons don''t have a logical way to evolve, unless we talk about some bio-weapon or way-too-sci-fi-weapon. In Rage of Mages 3: Evil Islands you have a system that allows you to attach any spell with any power level to any weapon. Only that is gets too high skill demands and can hardly be equipped. Anyway, we''ll wait for a better implementation.

quote: As the weapons evolved, they would be capable of new attack forms, but first you would have to gain experience with the new form of the weapon to be able to use it effectively. Also, the newer attack forms took progressively longer to charge up.

Don''t you think it''s more real to say that THE PLAYER has gone better using THAT type of weapon, so he has new attack types, etc? Like in Revenant, you go to a Combat Teacher every time you gain some experience WITH certain type of weapon, so he could teach you new attack techniques.

One thing that is for sure: a weapon was passed from father to a son for GENERATIONS. Then the boy started training from early age, so he could get accustomed with the weapon, so much accustomed that it felt like an extension to his hand. He knew the balance, so he could throw the weapon when needed. He spent with it more time that with his wife, because it''s said that "Even a good wife could cheat, but a good sword - never!". Now compare that to Diablo-like system.

That''s all.


Boby Dimitrov
boby@azholding.com